Six Stages of the Libertarian Movement | Murray N. Rothbard

A prolific author and Austrian economist, Murray Rothbard promoted a form of free-market anarchism he called “anarcho-capitalism.”

In this video from the first Libertarian International World Libertarian Convention in 1982 in Zurich, Switzerland,

Rothbard gives a lecture on what he identified as the six stages of building an independent libertarian (or any philosophical) movement in a region.

Rothbard identifies possible growing pains associated with the growing popularity of libertarianism but ultimately concludes that such risks are necessary because:

“Libertarians, it seems to me, are not content with contemplating justice, contemplating truth, goodness and beauty, we’re not playing intellectual games — we mean to change the world. We want to put this thing into reality.”

Source: Murray Rothbard: Six Stages of the Libertarian Movement – YouTube

http://www.readrothbard.com/six-stages-of-the-libertarian-movement-murray-n-rothbard

TRANSCRIPT
00:06
in presenting Murray to you
00:08
his teacher scholar writer professor
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editor of the libertarian for buttons of
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as many books that we just give you one
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time for the latest I believe the ethics
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of Liberty I think that will do for this
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audience it’s a pleasure for me to call
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on dr. Murray and brought word to
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deliver the keynote address of the world
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libertarian first world
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the battalion convention develop during
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82 ok
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[Applause]
01:04
see one prophecy turned out to be
01:07
incorrect I’m here none of my birthdays
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everything was fixed up by the
01:10
authorities the hotel whatever that’s a
01:16
great pleasure and privilege to be here
01:18
and it’s really great honor to be look
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to the deliverer of the keynote address
01:23
of the first world libertarian
01:25
international in my own irreverent terms
01:28
I could call the Liberty turn but I
01:30
think I will do that the the first
01:35
problem has confronted with and giving a
01:38
keynote address to this group is how can
01:42
I speak trans culturally I don’t know
01:44
how many nations are represented here
01:45
but quite a large number and how can I
01:50
speak to people who each one of each one
01:54
of whom has a different culture a
01:57
different national history a different
02:00
history of the movement and how can I
02:04
meaningfully talk to transnationally a
02:06
transcultural agent libertarians okay
02:09
the first answer to that was easy first
02:12
answer is the libertarianism itself of
02:14
course is international it’s
02:15
transnational it’s cosmopolite the
02:19
glorious idea of liberty of a free
02:22
market and a free society is universal
02:25
that’s not dependent on culture or time
02:27
or place for that ideal is based on the
02:32
nature and on the rights of man of human
02:34
beings wherever they exist so we have
02:37
this of course this one great common
02:40
language so to speak you’re come in
02:42
terminology of coming concepts which is
02:44
libertarianism it’s soft ok then I
02:48
thought I would try to work out a for
02:50
this gathering a at least the beginning
02:52
of a theory of stages of a libertarian
02:54
movement a theory which we might be able
02:59
to apply to every country regardless of
03:01
how small or how advanced the the
03:05
movement might be in the particular
03:06
country
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the I’m not saying of course that the
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these stages are inevitable that one
03:13
must always go from one to the other but
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I think every movement will pass through
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one stage 1 2 etc okay the first stage
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in any given country or region or area
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or City the first stage the movement
03:29
necessarily begins always with one
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person one person has an idea okay one
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isolated individual somehow discovers
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the Batarian ISM how he or she does it
03:38
that can happen in many different ways
03:40
and by reading by listening to something
03:43
by thinking and whatever so we have one
03:46
solitary libertarian living isolated in
03:48
one particular country or regions in the
03:52
United States such a person is often
03:54
called a lone nut
03:56
okay so stage one is a lone nut stage
04:00
okay I think it states that with grade B
04:03
or such as myself of course went through
04:05
the lone nut’ stage and many people here
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probably have I was alone out of the
04:10
1940s that was my lone nut’ period
04:14
probably earlier than that too
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okay so the lone nut’ continues on and
04:20
the gadfly status arguing with people
04:22
being a pest whatever
04:25
learning more about libertarianism and
04:28
finally a great moment arrives in the
04:30
lone nuts
04:32
development he or she finds another lone
04:35
nut this is a tremendous thing I’d like
04:39
this it could be either sex it could be
04:43
the low nut
04:44
either fines or converts another
04:46
libertarian all right this is a great
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moment and the use of each person’s
04:50
development and now we have two lone
04:52
nuts of course it’s much more effective
04:55
and much more and much happier than one
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lone nut you have two friends buddies
04:59
comrades who pal around together who
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discuss these great ideas that they just
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learned about sit up all night
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discussing them and so forth so on so
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now we have the the stage to the buddy
05:11
stage of a pair of the two of the two
05:13
lone nuts together stage at this point I
05:17
should say something about the about the
05:19
conversion process
05:22
if indeed the first loan not converted
05:25
the second loan not because of course
05:27
conversions crucial only and the growth
05:29
of the of the libertarian movement or of
05:31
any movement I think the most
05:34
conversions like there are many ways the
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conversions can take place and have
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taken place but I think that most
05:40
conversions occur not by verbal
05:43
bludgeoning of a high-pressure tactics
05:45
but by the convert either hearing or
05:48
reading or whatever is something which
05:50
he feels or a statement or statements
05:53
which he feels and she feels with a sort
05:55
of a shock of recognition to be
05:58
articulating something that he believed
05:59
down deep for many years she I always
06:01
believed that I just couldn’t put into
06:03
the words I keep finding every
06:05
libertarian after a libertarian who says
06:07
that how did you how did you specially
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in the early days of the movement we
06:11
find a little bit tearing we say Jesus
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how did you become a little bit tearing
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like how did you become a deep-sea diver
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or whatever and and person would say
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well I came across this or read this or
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heard this I said to myself I believe
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this all my life and I couldn’t I never
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articulated it so I think this is a
06:28
crucial to the conversion process okay
06:33
so we have these two buddies either who
06:35
either the first long not found or
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converted the second buddy
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and the third buddy comes the third
06:44
convert appears now this this growth
06:47
from two to three this is stage three in
06:49
the development of the movement growth
06:52
from two to three is not just a 50%
06:53
increase of course it is a 50% increase
06:55
quantitatively that’s much more than
06:57
that because one person is alone not two
07:00
people are too low nuts three people
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that’s already a school of thought okay
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there’s much bigger impact on life
07:08
around them and two people gee three
07:11
people believe this crazy thing maybe
07:13
there’s something to it
07:15
[Music]
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so now we have a school of thought we
07:21
have a little group and it seems to me
07:22
at least my experience has been my
07:24
observations and once you have three
07:26
people it’s pretty easy to get six or
07:27
seven and then we have six or seven
07:30
you’re now in stage four
07:33
of the movement which study group stage
07:35
or the Marx is called a circle stage
07:38
development you have now a circle work
07:41
with people six seven eight nine
07:42
whatever who become libertarians and boy
07:47
of ways is fantastic and the Wilsons
07:49
have ramifications of this and the
07:51
sitter and they study and they meet on a
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regular basis as a study group they read
07:54
they discuss along another night and so
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forth and so on like they get untouched
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a wheat libertarian classics maybe they
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put out a little newsletter they get in
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touch with libertarian groups in other
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countries or other regions other cities
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and so we have this the circle state I
08:13
myself was in the circle stage during
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the nineteen fifties in New York City
08:17
and a little group of six or seven
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hardcore friends and colleagues and
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about three or four hangers on which we
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call the circle Basquiat which of course
08:27
ramifies movie okay so that was our
08:30
circle and I think this is again the
08:31
circle stage ethic is as happens in in
08:34
every movement and libertarianism in the
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circle stage is to say we have regular
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you have regular meetings you tend to
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meet once a week and once whatever and
08:46
there are discussions and arguments and
08:49
theoretical refinements and so forth but
08:54
one thing you must say we one thing
08:56
happens of course also the disagreements
08:58
will occur and I was six or seven people
09:00
you bound I have at least a opinions
09:02
okay if not more but one thing that one
09:07
of among the differences first of all
09:09
all differences tend to be actually put
09:11
it
09:12
I wouldn’t say unimportant the lovable
09:15
other where somebody says I’m a favor of
09:17
dolphin rights Wow okay this is this
09:20
never nutty pal here was a favor of
09:23
dolphin rights but it doesn’t really
09:25
become a strategic significance one way
09:28
or the other okay
09:29
as a matter of fact strategy is one
09:30
problem the never arises in the circle
09:32
stage in development nobody accuses
09:34
anybody else of selling out you have
09:36
eight people on a movement nobody
09:39
worries about what what’s strategic what
09:42
issues these eight people talk about
09:44
first
09:45
nobody talks about leadership selling
09:47
out nobody worries about the training
09:49
principle because when the movement if
09:51
you have six or seven usually young and
09:54
usually on an influential unknown people
09:56
a problem of selling our principal never
09:59
arises okay it’s just on it just the
10:00
practice it’s usually a problem it’s a
10:04
matter for a big joke big hilarity say
10:06
hey we’re gonna sell out tomorrow and
10:07
yeah right
10:08
these six or seven people nobody’s ever
10:10
heard of okay so that’s the this by the
10:14
way this stage this circle stage is also
10:16
usually a force of friendship stage I
10:18
mean it’s almost inevitable that circles
10:21
or six or seven people are gonna be very
10:22
close friends and so you have a
10:24
friendship situation
10:26
along with or what’s now called an
10:29
affinity group situation along with a
10:31
libertarian studying with okay now this
10:36
is very I would say this is also very
10:40
that’s very happy time for most people
10:43
who they found here they were alone nuts
10:44
and now they find six or seven people
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and bygones is fantastic okay there’s no
10:49
problems of growth because of the growth
10:50
occurs it usually good and good years is
10:53
one a year they had one more person for
10:56
the studying group that doing very well
10:59
in that addition of one will be somebody
11:02
dropping at so problems of growth
11:06
problems of strategy just simply do not
11:07
arise in this situation okay we now have
11:12
and of course I’m speaking mostly from
11:14
the United States experiences we have
11:17
the largest and most advanced movement
11:22
the we that comes a point Stage five I
11:27
guess it is a number game here where
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something happens to the circles and the
11:34
circle stage gets transcended into a
11:37
movement stage or a movement activists
11:39
stage proper name for it movement
11:43
activism as one name for the movement so
11:45
properly so call a mass movement and
11:47
sense of a nationwide movement one by
11:50
the way one sign of whether you’re in
11:52
this nationwide movement in our
11:53
you’re out of the circle state he’s a
11:54
very simple sign I remember falaya I
11:57
don’t remember the year and this
11:58
happened to me the early stages of the
12:00
movement there like six libertarians in
12:02
New York six in California whatever you
12:06
know every libertarian very well in the
12:07
whole country
12:08
that means no problem and so if any
12:10
libertarian article comes out you know
12:12
this you know who wrote it you probably
12:13
saw the article before it came out so
12:15
and so on one of the hallmarks of the
12:18
leap into movement into the mass
12:19
movement stage I mean you see hey this
12:22
is a pretty good article who the hell is
12:23
this wrote it you don’t know who this
12:26
libertarian has eroded this is a very
12:28
key significant point something have a
12:30
bell goes on your head so to speak
12:33
because this is the shows of the
12:35
movements in what Rostock called take
12:37
off stage in development gets to take
12:40
off very rapidly
12:43
okay that’s money for us many movements
12:46
just stay at the circle stage forever
12:48
indefinitely others
12:51
leap out of it the United States
12:53
movement did I I think I would date
12:55
these take off stage of the American in
12:57
the United States movement two famous
12:59
dates I think one is make the summer of
13:01
1969 when they conservative young
13:04
Americans for freedom the campus group
13:06
split into the libertarian wing in the
13:09
Contra ditional a– swing over the draft
13:11
question for effect and libertarians
13:14
were all either kicked out or left
13:15
yeah and began to think of themselves
13:17
for the first time was separate self
13:19
conscious libertarians rather than
13:21
conservatives it’s completely separate
13:22
from conservatives that was one big step
13:25
and the next big step in the take off
13:28
stage and rizzoli in early 1971
13:30
the New York Times highlighted this
13:32
growing movement for the first time in a
13:34
magazine Sunday magazine section the
13:36
front cover and by by doing that of
13:38
course a tremendously accelerated the
13:40
growth of the movement since the media
13:41
interacts with especially in New York
13:43
Times New York Times says that it must
13:45
be important that sort of thing and said
13:47
itself accelerating the growth of the
13:49
movement the okay so this growth out of
13:55
the circle out of the circle stage of
13:58
course is a magnificent thing I mean
13:59
it’s a grace of fantastic unbelievable
14:01
think it’s a wondrous shock
14:03
back and it does however cost problems
14:08
okay causes psychological problems and
14:10
organizational problems the growth out
14:13
of the circle stage might be cool your
14:15
guardian terms a leaf of will or a leap
14:18
in being okay tremendous qualitative as
14:20
well as quantitative leak alright so I’m
14:24
going to talk about that that the if the
14:32
okay if the moon is lucky as I say you
14:35
have this take off stage which is highly
14:36
exhilarating for us but can be
14:38
troublesome
14:39
alright before this as I said in the
14:41
circle stage you may one convert a year
14:43
now people suddenly converting all the
14:45
time people pop up everywhere
14:47
what are these people call themselves
14:48
libertarians okay and one of the problem
14:52
immediate problem of that is before this
14:54
all libertarians were close friends okay
14:57
there’s an affinity group or friendship
14:59
groups of Jewish now all of a sudden
15:01
people are popping up well you don’t
15:03
want to receive in your own home right
15:05
this is a big psychological shock see
15:08
before this well its person a little bit
15:10
tearing you take them into your home you
15:12
know wine and I know this is fantastic
15:13
every libertarian is ipso facto a great
15:16
person great lovable person as more
15:19
libertarians flood in you begin to find
15:21
with a tremendous law during this shock
15:25
of unfortunate shot this time
15:27
recognition that well there are a lot of
15:29
libertarians are not great in lovable
15:31
people cuz in the early days of the
15:34
libertarians say because of the circle’s
15:36
stage I think the early stages one tends
15:39
to think all libertarians are great okay
15:41
then as I say shock just shock occurs
15:46
and you begin to realize that there are
15:48
people and there are a lot of jerks out
15:49
there who are also libertarians I think
15:52
there’s a there’s a point here that
15:59
there’s probably I think I can safely
16:01
say they’ll probably no higher
16:03
proportion of great unlovable people in
16:05
or movement than there are anywhere else
16:06
okay I know it’s a terrible thing to say
16:08
I’m gonna say it
16:10
I think being libertarian makes us
16:12
libertarians alright but it confers no
16:14
special grace in other areas of life
16:16
right or to put it another way the
16:18
libertarian movement doesn’t promise us
16:20
a rose garden
16:21
the only promises Liberty but by god
16:23
that’s enough ok so then as I say that’s
16:28
that is a that’s a justman shock it’s
16:31
across I remember in the first days
16:33
early stages of libertarian movement in
16:35
the United States there’s a theory he
16:37
should always deal with libertarians in
16:39
business world she always hire them hi
16:42
libertarians first you know deal with
16:43
them in business because since they’re
16:44
libertarian there must be rational able
16:47
people vote so for someone that was a
16:48
theory was shot that very quickly so
16:52
that’s it’s simply a fact as a division
16:54
of labor right and not a little bit
16:57
terrorism as I say confers no special
16:58
grace for other aspects of life we’d
17:01
like to think it does but it doesn’t
17:03
all right ok there are other inevitable
17:05
problems and leap into activism strategy
17:10
which was previously a manner for hiring
17:12
hi jokes and hijinks and all that
17:14
suddenly becomes extreme real problem
17:16
okay now most people win in the circle
17:19
stage and you’re seven or eight people
17:20
you don’t think about strategy you don’t
17:22
worry about what should we do first and
17:23
how should we go out against selling out
17:25
and so for the whole things were
17:26
ludicrous even think about in terms in
17:29
1960s or 1970s and in that period but
17:32
all of a sudden we have now a mass
17:34
movement becomes an important problem
17:36
and furthermore it’s a probably nobody
17:38
thought about up to lancets so the shock
17:40
problem okay
17:43
the also well and and there are several
17:47
aspects of this which I’ll go into one
17:49
is and the movement stage theoretical
17:52
differences become invested with
17:54
importance if she didn’t have a for the
17:56
lovable eccentric who’s in favor of
17:57
outlawing circumcision is child
17:59
mutilation suddenly becomes a threat
18:01
right
18:02
you don’t want them wins with the
18:03
organized movement the call for the
18:05
outlawing of circumcision
18:06
presumably comes at least an
18:10
embarrassment if not a threat for
18:12
organized movement first in the favor of
18:14
dolphin rights become somebody has to be
18:16
dealt with ginger like that
18:19
not with the same open lovability okay
18:24
so you haven’t it’s a problems become
18:27
more serious when the movement stage is
18:29
reached and then another problems also
18:34
inevitably involved in this and the
18:36
circle stage people who enter the
18:39
movement first of all like that get a
18:40
simulator very very quickly it’s only
18:42
one newcomer a year it’s easily to get
18:43
so easy to get socialized so the speaker
18:45
is simulated into the into the group and
18:47
most of the newcomers in the circle
18:50
stage that people love to sit around
18:51
talking about the theory one night I
18:52
certainly did everybody did and it was
18:55
in that period this is sort of thing
18:57
when you say three in the morning if
19:00
somebody if X owns a gorilla and the
19:04
gorilla runs loose and throws Y disease
19:06
plate grasped a plate glass window who’s
19:09
responsible for the windows the damage
19:11
to them it was it X is it wise of the
19:13
gorilla okay now these problems occupy a
19:17
great deal of time during a circle
19:18
period but now in the in the activism
19:23
period a new brand that people start
19:24
coming into the movement okay you have
19:26
mass activism you have people are not
19:27
that interested in theory anymore don’t
19:29
not interested in theoretical
19:30
discussions they want to concentrate
19:32
their energies on stuffing envelopes so
19:34
setting out booths at county fairs or
19:36
whatever whatever okay all these other
19:39
mundane activities that are involved in
19:41
an ideological or political activism so
19:45
this is great except then it becomes
19:47
important to redouble the internal
19:49
education in front in other words to
19:50
make conscious efforts that I keep keep
19:53
principals alive to keep educational
19:54
internal education reading discussion
19:57
all that stuff I live on the movement
19:59
whereas before you didn’t have to keep
20:00
it alive was there that was it that was
20:02
the movement now you have a problem of
20:04
getting sort of artificially getting and
20:06
generating and making sure that happens
20:07
otherwise the whole thing might die out
20:09
you might have people being active well
20:11
the point of the activity gets lost
20:13
somewhere and then cloudy 10 years back
20:17
so in order to keep the movement
20:19
libertarian there now becomes a
20:21
important to keep the theoretical vision
20:24
held up I’ve talked about an evening
20:26
pestered a bath of time
20:28
time right cat Edition out of the okay
20:33
to the greater importance of theoretical
20:35
differences in of internal education and
20:37
the movement stage new problems pop up
20:40
as I said strategy becomes important now
20:42
even if people a B and C are three
20:45
people all whom agree perfectly old
20:46
principles that’s a whole application
20:48
they would probably have differences in
20:50
strategy or tactics which which issues
20:55
should be talked about first which
20:57
issues should be not talked about so for
20:59
and so on so this is this these become
21:01
these important important differences
21:04
now crop up plus see that you do have a
21:07
problem to have opportunists willing to
21:09
sell out willing to abandon principal
21:11
hide principal in order they get quick
21:12
quick gains whatever the pre gains may
21:15
be okay so all these problems now come
21:19
pouring into a movement which is not
21:20
prepared for it was a movement which is
21:22
happily sitting around discussing who’s
21:25
responsible in the guerrilla gets thrown
21:26
in though all of a sudden I confronted
21:29
with a whole bunch of these new and and
21:31
rotten and upsetting problems in
21:37
addition to all that organization is
21:42
suffer we’re really talking about here
21:43
of course is problems involve any
21:44
organization of any size okay
21:47
organizations solve involves problems
21:48
you know as I say people have common
21:51
goals I’ll differ on which goals to
21:53
stress first of which courses of action
21:54
stress first resources of course Oh
21:57
limited okay so and you’re gonna have
21:59
situations where groups of people will
22:01
differ on honestly different tactics and
22:04
strategy and they gonna try to battle
22:06
for their own position in addition to
22:09
all that we have since we go and beyond
22:13
the pure friendship stage where
22:15
everybody loves everybody else into a
22:16
situation where it doesn’t happen but
22:18
inevitably gonna have personality
22:20
conflicts in any movement in the
22:21
large-scale movement so that’s that’s
22:24
another thing which gets added into the
22:26
strategy differences the theoretical
22:28
problem so for and so on all these
22:30
things now cc0 and surge in about the
22:33
same time addition of that family
22:39
stress enough problem so far in the
22:41
movement stage I’m not trying to
22:42
discourage people from getting entering
22:43
the movement stage otherwise I’ll point
22:45
out a minute I just try to be realistic
22:47
and prepare you for what happens as you
22:49
get into this mass movement area another
22:54
critical problem that occurs with a
22:56
large-scale organized movement is the
23:00
question of money
23:01
where’s all organizations requiring
23:02
money right money is a fuel for any kind
23:05
of activity and money itself raises a
23:07
host of problems per se most many
23:12
libertarians if not most libertarians
23:13
dream I think about becoming full time
23:15
libertarian otherwise wouldn’t be great
23:17
if I could spend all my energies 24
23:18
hours a day
23:19
advancing the cause of Liberty instead
23:21
of only one weekend or whatever a
23:24
weekend a month or only evenings
23:26
wouldn’t be great of my career also
23:28
libertarian now this is that’s in that
23:32
case of course if this were true we have
23:33
a tremendous multiplication of leverage
23:36
of people who are libertarian benefiting
23:39
the cause and expanding Video Vault no
23:42
Liberty so that’s that’s of course a
23:46
very fond help in a circle stage is
23:48
totally unrealistic
23:49
sort of a dream thing boy wouldn’t it be
23:51
great if I could be full time
23:53
libertarians ya know begin my shoelaces
23:56
okay but in the in the movements day we
23:58
have the movement activists stage of
24:00
stage 5 and I’ve talked about all of a
24:02
sudden this becomes a realistic
24:03
possibility there are full-time
24:04
libertarians now popping up okay and
24:07
this is important to pop up because I I
24:11
submit that the any cause whatever the
24:15
causes any any kind of development of
24:17
any sort whether it’s the science of
24:19
astronomy or the science of physics or
24:21
manufacturing computers or or playing
24:24
chess anything involves any cause of all
24:27
the organization of all some full-time
24:28
professionals than they’re doing it all
24:30
the time okay in other words no no
24:33
flourishing activity can subsist only on
24:35
volunteer active Ahlan tier action I
24:39
shredded the thing with the state of
24:41
physics would be or astronomy or
24:43
whatever rest ain’t the only restaurant
24:44
in 18th century period in 18th century
24:48
I’m only only volunteer for amateur
24:50
efforts
24:52
so we now have a situation we have a
24:54
cadre or a group of full-time volatile
24:56
time professionals and libertarianism
24:58
along with volunteers in this is bound
25:01
to lead to clashes and all sorts of and
25:04
problems right in addition to that one
25:08
of the problems it might lead to is
25:12
there was often a great temptation for
25:14
full-time professionals to lose sight of
25:15
the common objective in other words lose
25:17
sight of advancing the cause of
25:18
principles of Liberty
25:20
you start off let me put this way in the
25:22
early stages of a movement activity
25:24
movement activism people found
25:27
organizations will sorts many
25:30
organizations in the United States that
25:31
devoted to advancing Liberty okay you
25:34
start off I want to I’m gonna set up
25:35
such a such an organization in order to
25:37
advance Liberty in certain front in
25:39
order to do that in order to keep doing
25:41
it as a full-timer you have to raise
25:43
money
25:43
okay so fundraising becomes the key
25:45
means to this goal the problem is that
25:48
many and many organizations I’ve seen
25:50
this for about 20 years now what tends
25:52
to happen is that the person doing it
25:55
the full time are doing it against to
25:57
lose sight of the objective in other
25:58
words the means of the ends begin to
26:01
reverse themselves so the me the the end
26:04
becomes fundraising so instead of
26:07
fundraising being the means to advancing
26:09
the cause the end is fundraising or
26:12
fundraising for his own income and the
26:16
and the goal the means become tailoring
26:19
the the purpose of the organization in
26:20
order to please the donor in other words
26:23
as a donor likes tariffs well gee maybe
26:25
we should forget about free trade for
26:27
for 10 years and so this is a very very
26:31
strong temptation something has to be
26:33
obviously guarded against as one bidder
26:38
a member of such an organization told me
26:39
about 20 years ago now and one of the
26:41
early days the American movement and
26:43
that case quote the organization begins
26:46
to take on the dimensions of a racket
26:49
the goal becomes simply time serving or
26:52
keeping the organization going for its
26:53
own sake and for the sake of the job
26:55
holders okay so this is another pitfall
26:59
that comes with the the movement
27:00
activism stage alright so far been
27:05
I’ve seen to be painting a pretty grim
27:08
picture what’s involved and leap from
27:11
the circle stage the large-scale
27:13
movement I’m sure many of you would say
27:14
oh I’m glad we’re small our country but
27:18
I’m not I’m not trying to discourage I’m
27:20
trying to prepare prepare you for who
27:24
are now in a circle stage for the
27:25
problems to come because you’ll be able
27:27
to meet the problems a lot better than
27:28
we did when we weren’t prepared for it
27:30
because despite the headaches and the
27:32
problems and all the grief that may be
27:34
involved in it this leap in being or
27:37
this leap into a movement stage must be
27:39
embraced and braced with enthusiasm why
27:43
should I be in blatant bracelets oohs
27:44
yes and it’s very simple because for we
27:47
libertarians libertarianism is not
27:50
merely the intellectual contemplation of
27:51
a wonderful true and just political
27:53
philosophy it’s not just the aesthetic
27:57
contemplation of a beautiful ideal the
28:00
ideal of a world without organized
28:01
aggression a world of harmony of freedom
28:03
a prosperity of mutual cooperation
28:06
through voluntary activities and free
28:08
markets it is of course all of that for
28:12
because we come we become libertarians
28:14
in the first place because we fall in
28:16
love so to speak of the goodness the
28:18
truth and the beauty of libertarianism
28:21
but we libertarians essentially mean are
28:24
not content with contemplating justice
28:26
Capano fighting truth goodness and
28:28
beauty
28:28
we’re not playing intellectual games we
28:30
mean the chain to change the world if
28:33
you want to put this thing into reality
28:36
in order to do that in order because we
28:39
are setting out on the noblest task a
28:41
thing of all to dismantle the Leviathan
28:44
state and each of our countries and
28:45
ultimately throughout the world and in
28:47
order to do that in order to put Liberty
28:49
into practice in order to bring it out
28:51
of a closet so to speak you’re out of
28:53
the library into the world and order
28:55
assure in a world of freedom a world
28:57
free of the thugs and organized
28:58
gangsters of making so many lives that
29:00
hell on earth we have to organize we
29:03
have to become a mass movement despite
29:05
the whatever problems might be involved
29:08
okay so because to organize anything
29:12
whether it’s playing chess or producing
29:14
automobiles or advancing the science of
29:16
physics or whatever
29:18
NEADS organization and so organization
29:20
is needed in the victory of Liberty and
29:24
what I’ve really been talking about is
29:25
the problem of all organization and also
29:30
I would add something else
29:31
life itself brings problems right let’s
29:34
face it so we can even meet them by
29:37
trying to hide under the pillows or we
29:39
can rush out to face these problems
29:41
confidently and joyously in our case we
29:43
were grappling with such problems on
29:45
behalf of the greatest cause of all the
29:46
victory of Liberty so when the time
29:50
comes and each each of our countries to
29:52
advancement in the movement stage we
29:54
should rush to embrace it with
29:55
enthusiasm because it’s going to be
29:57
tremendous development toward the
29:58
eventual triumph of human freedom we
30:02
should simply be aware that embracing
30:04
this new higher stage of development
30:06
means agreeing to its requirements it
30:08
means giving up a cozy era of the
30:10
affinity group means being willing to
30:13
have an organization act even if a
30:16
minority in the organization disagrees
30:17
with the decision it’s the move because
30:21
in the affinity group the tendency is to
30:24
have unanimous consent everything’s
30:25
always great to have that everybody in
30:27
the all the eight people can agree in
30:29
everything it’s terrific better than
30:30
having five people vote three obviously
30:33
but if if we’re gonna have a movement of
30:36
any size we can’t have unanimous consent
30:38
for every decision and one of the
30:41
reasons for the deterioration of the
30:43
famous new left in the United States in
30:45
the late 1960s is they were believed
30:47
very strongly what they call
30:48
participatory democracy and
30:51
participatory democracy meant unanimous
30:53
agreement on every decision I mean
30:54
really every decision of the
30:56
organization was gonna make
30:57
and as a result life itself became one
31:01
big committee meeting one big continuous
31:03
meeting because you have to decide
31:05
everything what to paint the walls one
31:08
guy want to paint it brown somebody else
31:09
blue and you argue for 12 hours on that
31:12
so every individual in the organization
31:13
agreed on the color okay this is
31:16
literally the the triviality of these
31:19
this always involved so life became one
31:22
continuous meeting on the new left and
31:24
members who went home to go to sleep at
31:26
night would be accused of to train the
31:27
organization they left the meeting
31:30
right we don’t want that to have
31:31
obviously not only is it’s pretty
31:33
horrible way to live it also is
31:35
counterproductive to achieve the goals
31:38
of the organization okay they’re also in
31:41
the early days of the movement I haven’t
31:43
heard this in a long time in the United
31:44
States at least in the early days when
31:46
we leapt into a mass movement in the
31:48
early 70s there were some libertarians
31:51
who attack the very concept of movement
31:53
as being somehow collectivist an anti
31:55
libertarian it seems to me however
31:58
there’s nothing unlimited about
31:59
individuals banding together for to
32:03
advance common goals read upon common
32:05
goals there’s nothing unlimited about
32:07
voluntary organizations to play chess to
32:09
manufacture automobiles or to advance
32:12
the cause of Liberty just as there’s
32:15
nothing with unlimited about voluntary
32:17
organizations voluntary organizations
32:19
that is leaders committees and all the
32:21
rest of the apparatus of organization
32:23
although they constantly pop pop
32:26
libertarians who say this is unlimited
32:28
it might be unpleasant in some ways it’s
32:30
certainly not on the Batarian of course
32:34
one there should be one caveat about the
32:36
movement because obviously we want in
32:38
the libertarian movement individuals who
32:40
are free men and women they’re not
32:42
robots and we don’t want people who were
32:44
subordinate their individual lives or
32:46
ideas or convictions of the truth to a
32:49
quote Leuven unquote or the collective
32:51
even the libertarian movement itself
32:53
Liberty forces it rests on individuals
32:57
okay I’m gonna talk now a little bit
32:59
about the run through and sort of very
33:01
quickly the features of the organized
33:03
movement in the United States this
33:05
activist stage I’m not I don’t think I’m
33:10
gonna step on Fred stats territory
33:12
because gonna be very quick rundown if I
33:15
slide anybody I slide any individual any
33:18
groups or organizations I apologize
33:20
right now because it’s gotten so big
33:22
that even I can’t I can’t read this the
33:25
old stuff that’s coming out it’s not a
33:27
great a great day when you can’t read
33:29
all the material that’s coming out in
33:30
your country on libertarian is can’t
33:33
keep up and there’s lots of there’s new
33:36
groups being formal of time and so forth
33:38
so on this is
33:39
I just sort of run through of the United
33:43
States movement at the present time okay
33:46
in the movement is an abundant variety
33:47
of organizations of the suiting of
33:50
varying tendencies tastes occupations
33:53
interests over and so on there are
33:55
scholarly institutes magazines
33:57
newsletters Campus student groups
33:59
educational clubs organizations and
34:02
scholarly disciplines tax rebels
34:05
political lobbying organizations and so
34:06
forth a lobbying our educational groups
34:10
may be general or they may concentrate
34:12
on one particular issue vital to
34:14
libertarians and building coalitions
34:16
around that issue summarizations
34:19
I live a long time others rise in for
34:22
after a few months or after one issue of
34:24
a mimeograph newsletter so there’s all
34:27
sorts of diversity is it really a rich
34:29
variety and diversity of libertarian
34:30
groups and organizations in the United
34:32
States and this is by the way a variety
34:35
and diversity to be cherished now not
34:38
only for its own sake and I think it is
34:40
because but also because with such poly
34:43
centrosome if we can have these that
34:45
famous Marxist term of our movement with
34:49
poly centrosome a grievous any grievous
34:51
mistake of principle or strategy or
34:53
organization by one any one group will
34:56
not prove fatal to the movement as a
34:57
whole order the cause of Liberty said
34:59
one group goofs makes a big mistake
35:01
they might go down the tubes or reach
35:04
French or something but the other groups
35:05
would still continue to flourish so we
35:07
have sort of a free competition if you
35:08
want to put it that way in the carrying
35:10
groups okay in a scholarly world which
35:14
is my own major interest I’ll start with
35:16
that there’s four overall libertarian
35:19
scholarship there’s the Center for
35:20
libertarian studies in New York which
35:22
I’m associated and a quarterly journal
35:25
the Journal of libertarian studies which
35:27
I’m the editor can’t start with on my
35:29
own
35:29
stick first on the west coast as the
35:31
reason foundations as journal recent
35:33
papers philosophically oriented
35:36
periodical editor by Tibor McCann
35:38
a venerable and low-key organization
35:41
implicitly interested in libertarian
35:43
scholarship as the Institute for Humane
35:45
studies which publishes the
35:47
bibliographical
35:48
the literature of Liberty comes out
35:50
about twice a year the association’s I
35:53
think that’s cool association for
35:55
philosophy and society I think they
35:56
change their name any rate this
35:57
organization is a Google of neo Randy
36:00
and philosopher Center in the center of
36:01
the Midwest they meet usually once a
36:03
year or twice a year there was an
36:06
Austrian economics newsletter published
36:07
by the Center for libertarian studies
36:09
advancing the principles of meze se and
36:11
Austrian economics and the center also
36:14
grants annual Ludwig von Mises
36:15
fellowships for pre and post doctoral
36:17
study and all the disciplines of human
36:18
action the Cato Institute now located in
36:21
Washington publishes a semi-annual
36:23
scholarly Cato journal devoted to
36:26
applied economic and legal problems and
36:28
both Cato anti Institute fee main
36:30
studies whole week-long seminars during
36:32
the summer for a quick course and the
36:34
overall principles and features of
36:36
libertarianism these seminars performing
36:38
two functions really an educational
36:40
function also gathering new recruits
36:42
into the movement finding new people
36:46
magazines and periodicals are everywhere
36:48
in the United States a whole bunch of us
36:49
I don’t even know all of them I saw they
36:52
range from the relatively large
36:53
circulation soft core and slick and
36:56
outreach e as we call it soft core
36:59
outreach publications like the monthly
37:01
reason and inquiry the smaller
37:04
circulation newsletters like frontlines
37:06
to my own feisty and aggressively
37:08
hardcore monthly libertarian forum there
37:13
were political lobbying organizations
37:16
such as the hardcore Council for a
37:18
competitive economy in Washington with
37:20
its magazine competition a softcore
37:23
National Taxpayers Union and various
37:24
gold-bug groups and periodicals the
37:27
voters are returning to the gold
37:28
standard many of which are free market
37:29
and even libertarian there are anti
37:32
political groups such as Sam Cochran’s
37:34
new libertarians have put out several
37:35
three articles none of which names I can
37:37
keep straight and the new scholarly
37:40
voluntary us there is a bizarre
37:42
publication called the libertarian
37:43
connection which is I haven’t seen in
37:45
about ten years
37:45
understand still comes out reason I
37:48
stopped subscribing to us where they
37:50
come out on purple paper with purple
37:52
ribbon typewriter ribbon so those of us
37:54
have semi blind
37:56
heimdal on that one
37:58
I understand I say that’s still coming
38:02
on the campus there are two student
38:04
libertarian organizations the students
38:06
for a libertarian Society which
38:07
publishes Liberty probably the larger
38:10
group and the older Society for
38:12
individual liberty which puts at
38:13
individual liberty another publication
38:15
and which emerged in 1969 out of the Yap
38:18
split that I mentioned a while back
38:21
okay I’ve there’s of course one
38:23
organization I have left out and
38:25
deliberately so because of the zero
38:26
special treatment that is the the
38:28
biggest organization organization in the
38:31
United States the Libertarian Party
38:33
political organization this is the
38:37
political party stage Stage six I guess
38:40
keep my numbers straight I’m not a
38:43
quantitative us
38:46
how many members of the LP have we don’t
38:49
know it’s very confusing this first of
38:50
all there’s a decentralized structure in
38:53
the United States of the state parties
38:54
and there’s a national party you have
38:57
the option of being a member either of
38:58
the state party that you’re in or the
38:59
National Party or both so holding is
39:02
very confused let’s let’s venture a
39:04
guess of about 12,000 out members one I
39:06
just this is a very very hunch hunch
39:09
easy so to speak
39:11
the largest proportional and to the
39:14
population best organized parties are in
39:17
the western states states like Alaska
39:19
California Hawaii Arizona Colorado and
39:22
Texas
39:22
now our Westerners like to think of this
39:25
is true because of the individualism
39:27
entrepreneurship on the frontier Western
39:29
wild west frontier maybe they’re right
39:31
knows very possibly true the National
39:36
Party publishes a bi-monthly periodical
39:38
the LP news and their each state party
39:40
puts out its own newsletter the most
39:42
prominent widest red being those of
39:43
California Texas and Colorado the total
39:46
votes in the party of course we enormous
39:48
ly greater than the actual membership
39:50
where’s the votes are coming in by
39:52
people who are like whatever and they’d
39:55
not necessarily party members so the our
39:57
last presidential candidate in 1980
39:59
acquired over nine hundred thousand
40:00
votes that said Clark was here this week
40:02
the the nominal party membership of
40:05
twelve thousand of course a lot bigger
40:07
than the actual number of dedicated
40:08
activists who show up all the time
40:10
old structure here the Libertarian Party
40:13
contains within itself caucuses that
40:15
dedicated to particular points of view
40:17
to which each caucus tries to convert
40:19
other party members there the
40:22
libertarians for life an anti-abortion
40:23
group trying to change the party’s
40:25
probable Pro free choice and abortion
40:27
platform as a defense caucus and the
40:30
radical caucus of hardcore militants
40:31
have published the bimonthly periodical
40:34
libertarian bangoy now it should not be
40:37
surprising after all I’ve talked about
40:39
the pitfalls of organizations and stage
40:43
5 then in stage 6 which is the political
40:46
party stage that the libertarian party’s
40:50
experience all the joys and heartaches
40:51
and much more as we say in Isis in
40:54
spades that we’ve said was a lot of
40:56
organizations there was the elaborate
40:58
Herren party has had even more of course
40:59
of these problems than any individual
41:02
group first place the ILP is the biggest
41:05
libertarian organization by far
41:07
okay secondly it’s by nature an umbrella
41:09
group that has to take stands and a
41:11
whole bunch of issues you can’t confine
41:12
itself of a gold standard or whatever
41:15
and also Hestia night has to focus on
41:18
single particular issues and in the
41:22
platform state and national platform has
41:24
to focus on single candidates as that
41:25
Apple will have only one candidate for
41:27
president and so forth so therefore is a
41:29
necessity for a unitary action umbrella
41:32
a unitary action which makes things much
41:33
which makes life quite difficult because
41:36
there’s lots of course enormous amount
41:37
of disagreements and factions popping up
41:42
okay and each candidate of course most
41:44
of us then select the most important
41:45
issues which he or she will focus on so
41:49
the result of this large size a
41:51
necessity for speaking out on all the
41:52
issues selection of single slates and
41:54
all last the maximize the arena of
41:56
conflict differences of opinion strategy
41:58
differences tactics personality
42:00
struggles power struggles and all that
42:02
and yet again I’ll say the same thing as
42:04
I said about stage 5 it’s all worth it
42:08
the leap into the political parties
42:10
really the sixth stage the the political
42:12
party doesn’t replace the other
42:14
organizations many Americans with some
42:17
obscure ease in the sink that ideology
42:18
means political party and that’s it if
42:20
you’re a socialist must join the
42:22
Socialist Party you don’t they’re
42:24
confused this is course is not true at
42:27
all a political party is the political
42:29
the electoral arm the electoral activist
42:31
arm of the libertarian movement there
42:35
are many libertarians don’t join it who
42:36
are not interested all those who were
42:39
opposed to political action so there’s a
42:41
whole range of differences and a
42:44
libertarian party as I say is is is a
42:45
political arm local electoral arm of the
42:48
movement electoral politics all of the
42:50
movement and is the movement embodied in
42:52
party politics
42:53
put it that way okay I don’t think I
42:57
would say them just as there cannot be
42:58
massive growth of a libertarian movement
43:00
without organization in the previous
43:02
stage five so there can be no successful
43:04
movement without a political party arm
43:07
why is this what are the why there are
43:09
there great benefits to a political
43:10
party which I think outweigh the
43:13
problems while a many of their many
43:18
reasons for the many benefits that
43:19
political party confers on a movement
43:21
first places performs a mass educational
43:23
function most people at least say in the
43:25
United States I don’t know how it isn’t
43:27
in Europe in Asia but at least in the
43:30
United States most people only think
43:32
about political issues in the context of
43:34
electoral campaigning go think of any of
43:36
the think about if somebody’s running
43:37
for governor I’ll think about the issues
43:39
which they won’t think about for the
43:40
other rest of the two years the greater
43:44
interest and attention will of that and
43:47
will bring the message of libertarian
43:48
principles and programs to broad masses
43:50
of people who never heard of it before
43:52
helped change their minds in direction
43:55
of Liberty helped recruit them in the
43:56
sense that gee somebody listened to
43:57
something I’d tell it watches on
43:58
television or something
43:59
gee I believe that for all my life so
44:02
now he’s hearing on on television
44:03
instead of meeting the person you know
44:05
face to face so it expands the area of
44:08
possible conversion and as I say the
44:12
political party then recruits new people
44:14
into the movement it educates
44:16
it beans the ideas forth and draws new
44:18
people in the and some people when they
44:24
grow and won’t join the party because
44:26
they’re not interested in party politics
44:27
but I’ll become libertarians anyway and
44:29
that’s a good thing that’s a good step
44:30
in other words just increasing the Pro
44:34
libertarian climate in the country is
44:35
worth it
44:36
so to speak all right thirdly a
44:39
libertarian party for as it grows as it
44:42
grows strong enough and in several
44:44
states we have gotten to this point it
44:47
functions as a as a pressure group that
44:49
can be affected for more effective on
44:51
politicians than and then aid than any
44:53
single lobbying organization a party has
44:57
more members in first place than any
44:59
usual lobbying group and so for a sense
45:02
of our gist thread the polls my guys got
45:04
twelve thousand members they might kill
45:05
me my district something like that so a
45:08
political party even would only say five
45:10
percent of the vote can exert a balance
45:14
of power or sort of thing on the other
45:15
major parties scare them and push them
45:17
even against their will and more
45:19
libertarian direction so and since for
45:24
libertarians the goal of a political
45:26
party he’s not getting patronage jobs
45:27
but rolling back the state any
45:31
libertarian party should be delighted to
45:33
find themselves being co-opted so to
45:35
speak but a program stolen by the major
45:36
party that’s great then you advance them
45:38
up the ante as we say in poker and you
45:41
know start making greater demands let
45:43
them steal that till finally the state
45:44
is wiped away okay finally as a
45:51
political party grows even more than
45:53
this
45:53
beyond the balance of power stage it
45:57
will be more the position actually
45:58
winning office which we’ve done a few
46:01
cases and by winning office by actually
46:05
entering office began then cast votes
46:07
and push through programs which will
46:09
roll back while Leviathan state directly
46:12
there are there many anti politics or
46:16
anti party libertarians who claim that
46:18
it’s possible to dismantle statism
46:20
without actually going into getting into
46:22
office mass civil disobedience for
46:25
example one thing everybody refuses to
46:27
pay taxes next year or something like
46:29
that that I think I’d love to see that
46:31
happen I don’t see any realistic
46:33
possibility I haven’t seen any seen it
46:35
happen yet that’s what of that way you
46:36
know there were a lot of tax rebels
46:38
there’s no mass South situation we’re
46:41
all sort of – what an odd million people
46:43
say well we won’t pay taxes next April
46:45
15
46:47
or anything close to that it’s true that
46:51
math civil disobedience can be rated for
46:53
example an alcohol is prohibited in the
46:55
United States and 1920s it essentially
46:58
broke down because it wasn’t enforceable
46:59
in other words people just drank anyway
47:01
and the whole system the whole apparatus
47:03
of law began to break down
47:04
and so repeal of prohibition really was
47:07
a result of that still in all and Spike
47:11
Lee fact there was heroic tax rebels and
47:15
raft resistors and drinkers during
47:17
Prohibition our heroes it’s still there
47:20
is still it’s still not enough in other
47:22
words it’s still a vital need for
47:22
somebody to get in there and actually
47:24
will actually repeal the laws they
47:27
actually get in there enter state office
47:29
and dismantle it legislators who will
47:32
repeal the sponeck laws executives who
47:34
heroically who will heroically refuse to
47:37
enforce them judges will rule from a
47:39
common a natural law of Liberty against
47:40
state power these people are needed ok
47:43
and I don’t see the state being
47:45
dismantled being rolled back without it
47:46
in any significant sense so libertarian
47:52
movement seems to me should be is and
47:55
should be multifaceted it should have
47:58
educational institutions periodicals
48:01
campus groups lobbying outfits etcetera
48:03
that we also however need a mass
48:05
political party a libertarian party
48:07
which that will pledge itself to aid the
48:09
victory of Liberty by rolling back and
48:11
dismantling the state by elected by the
48:13
electoral process I think by the way
48:15
it’s even though a libertarian party’s
48:17
important the growth end of the sixth
48:19
stage so to speak it’s important not to
48:22
launch such a party without adequate
48:23
preparation so it’s it’s it’s it’s
48:26
possible to start a party too quickly
48:28
before there’s enough people before
48:30
there’s any common agreement and so for
48:31
and so on the Marxist never launched a
48:35
party without what they call pre party
48:37
formation which they couldn’t prepare
48:40
the way and get coalition’s you got
48:42
groups together degree in something
48:43
before they actually say we are the
48:44
radical communist liberty or liberation
48:48
party or whatever it is I think it’s a
48:50
good lesson to heed
48:55
okay now on the final section here is to
49:00
talk about what theoretical issues need
49:03
to be decided when you get into the
49:04
movement stage especially a libertarian
49:05
party stage that doesn´t have to be
49:09
agreement on everything every jot and
49:10
tittle of everything okay you don’t have
49:12
to agree on what for example the early
49:15
stages of Libertarian Party in New York
49:17
remember there’s a group of people
49:19
believe that we couldn’t start a
49:20
political party without a whole
49:22
philosophical schmear from the very
49:23
beginning when you start with a is a
49:25
work those of your rent on ran you work
49:27
through the whole thing concept
49:28
formation if anybody disagrees on free
49:31
will or concept formation or may as a
49:34
even they’re kicked out now I think that
49:38
would be you know you never get to the
49:39
political party stage if you insist on
49:42
total correct philosophic agreement on
49:44
everything I think that’s on dolphin
49:47
rights that matter so I think yeah it
49:50
comes a point we have to say okay we
49:52
agree in the basics let’s now start
49:54
organizing because if you wait to ran
49:56
every conceivable lemma and syllogism
49:58
you’ll never do anything at all so but I
50:01
think we have to get certain broad
50:02
agreement on key issues fairly early in
50:06
the game not necessarily before a party
50:08
is launched we’re pretty early in the
50:09
stages and I’ll just run through
50:12
finished by running through some of
50:13
which I think some of the key questions
50:15
which should be decided one of them of
50:21
course is the morality of political
50:22
action there are a lot of libertarians
50:24
and the United States to think that any
50:25
political action is immoral it Sun
50:27
libertarian voting running for office or
50:29
holding office obviously if you you have
50:34
to read a political action is moral in
50:35
order to become a political party member
50:37
okay so I think this this has to be
50:40
decided by political party people
50:42
hopefully by a little bit Aryans too
50:45
I frankly don’t see why it’s immoral
50:47
I’ve been engaging these arguments for
50:49
years if the state leaves us the state
50:52
leaves us this err not all countries
50:53
that we are we allowed to vote but in
50:56
some in many countries and state leaves
50:57
us this particular area of choice okay
50:59
you can vote for a party of your choice
51:02
every two years or whatever I see no
51:04
reason why we cannot morally use this
51:07
choice to help scuttle statism the state
51:10
is stupid enough to leave us this choice
51:12
let’s use it now this this action was
51:16
taken by our classical liberal forebears
51:18
we have classical with both forebears of
51:20
university liberals and radicals of the
51:22
18th 19th century and by the American
51:26
revolutionaries and crazy libertarians
51:28
of those centuries and they did pretty
51:29
well and they could accomplish an
51:30
enormous amount ok and rolling back the
51:32
state largely through the electoral
51:35
process and also massive Elissa beans
51:37
and other stuff that’s certainly using
51:38
that too
51:41
we also have to remember however as we
51:43
engage in political action and the joint
51:45
political parties that remember the wise
51:47
maximal Lord Act and the power corrupts
51:49
as well as Jefferson’s adage the eternal
51:52
vigilance is the price of Liberty or as
51:54
the Catholics might say running for or
51:56
holding office is not itself a sin
51:58
avoided at all for occasions for sin so
52:04
this has to be gored it against ok
52:07
secondly the key question I think at
52:11
least my point of view and the eternal
52:13
argument Joy’s is taking place between
52:14
rights based versus utility based
52:16
libertarians do you you ground your
52:18
belief in liberty and utility and
52:20
efficiency in one hand or or in moral
52:23
principles and you and human rights on
52:24
the other it seems to me extremely
52:27
important without the moral morality and
52:28
white space position we are for liberty
52:31
not only or mainly even because freedom
52:33
will bring us more soap and more bathtub
52:35
as much as we like soap than that folks
52:37
ok we are for Liberty and against the
52:40
oppression because we believe strongly
52:42
and passionately in the morality and
52:43
justice of Liberty and the immorality
52:45
and criminality of statism
52:46
I think very few people will struggle
52:49
for liberty is a lifelong commitment
52:51
which we all do often I great against
52:54
great odds merely from you know twenty
52:56
percent more bathtubs I think for a bit
53:00
more efficiency so I think libertarians
53:05
must be the kind of people who want
53:06
above all demand justice and fortunately
53:11
this usually of course goes along with
53:12
utilitarian us utilitarian economics but
53:15
not always the fortunately I think in
53:19
the United States
53:20
a few denied unfeminine economists there
53:23
very few libertarians to take the
53:25
efficiency route here most most
53:27
libertarians are rights based and
53:30
justice based Rotarians one thing
53:34
utilitarian economists always making
53:35
exceptions on the libertarian to the
53:37
libertarian puts it always said well of
53:38
course you can have neighborhood parks
53:40
something like that a morality based
53:43
libertarian makes no exceptions
53:45
uncompromising and consistent okay as I
53:49
say I think the battle has been won in
53:50
the libertarian party at least on that
53:52
question in the United States how many
53:56
of you might be wondering why I didn’t
53:57
put first on this list I have left I
53:59
think five things here why didn’t put
54:02
first the famous problem anarchism
54:05
versus minaret Gizem or anarchism versus
54:08
limited government or government
54:09
strictly limited to defense police in
54:11
courts reason I don’t talk about it much
54:14
is because even though the problem was
54:15
highly important and theory and should
54:17
continue to be debated for forever as
54:19
far as I’m concerned for purposes of
54:21
practical organization and within the
54:23
libertarian party it’s made very little
54:24
cause very little difficulty in other
54:27
words anarchists and Minik has been
54:28
working together very very closely and
54:30
as much friction since the famous Dallas
54:33
Accord in 1974 when they they hammering
54:36
out wording agreements where the
54:39
anarchist don’t call for smashing the
54:41
state and in the party platform or
54:43
whatever and the minute kiss don’t call
54:45
for don’t say the proper function of
54:47
government is to do such as you just
54:48
leave that alone I think the reason why
54:51
both groups can work together on this is
54:53
because after all we agree on 99% of
54:55
stuff in other words both the men are
54:57
kiss in the Anika’s ream rolling back
54:59
about 99% of the state so why not do
55:01
that and then worry about the other 1%
55:02
after we get it it seems will seems a
55:05
little premature to start belly aching
55:08
about that 1% so we have the 99% to
55:10
agree on that has not really posed a
55:13
problem in the United States the problem
55:19
okay but this is point four of the basic
55:22
issues but while anarchism versus Minich
55:24
ISM has caused very few practical
55:26
difficulties there is a I think a big
55:29
problem which is still not been resolved
55:31
and they where one stands on
55:33
but I call abolitionism versus mandatory
55:35
gradualism other words assigned the
55:37
anarchist mythicist question the do you
55:42
a favor abolishing the state or a 99
55:45
percent of the state however as fast as
55:46
you could possibly do it if you had a
55:48
kind of quiet a button on this podium
55:50
imagine but pushing this phone I could
55:53
eliminate the state would I do it my
55:55
answer of course is I would Lister my
55:57
thumb pushing that but so I’m an
55:59
abolitionist now other people are what I
56:02
call mandatory gradualists in other
56:04
words they believe no no we shouldn’t
56:06
even if we had the magic button we
56:08
shouldn’t push it because all sorts of
56:09
other problems that are superseding that
56:11
because social dislocation because
56:14
unemployment we call and temporarily we
56:16
cause this disappointment of
56:18
expectations or whatever okay in my view
56:22
it’s very important to take the
56:23
abolitionists position because it means
56:25
you’re holding nothing else higher than
56:27
Liberty I was to be a libertarian
56:28
sinston you should hold liberties your
56:30
highest political objective so this is
56:33
as I say it’s a continuing dispute the
56:37
it does of course there is no magic but
56:39
obviously we can just polish the state
56:42
but this this attitude toward the magic
56:44
button effects I think attitudes toward
56:46
the political action by all libertarians
56:49
affects your whole attitude towards the
56:50
state until the political problems and
56:52
so forth
56:54
my my hero on the slavery front William
56:56
Lloyd Garrison it was an abolitionist
56:58
and also a libertarian by the way in
56:59
general said he was in favor of
57:01
immediate abolition he didn’t think it
57:03
would come immediately he didn’t think
57:04
would be immediate abolition of slavery
57:06
although turn out to be a pretty please
57:08
pretty much a one-step thing but he
57:11
believed it’s important to say that
57:12
morally we were favor of immediate
57:15
abolition even though probably
57:16
enlightened practice we’re gonna get
57:17
gradual abolition even though we don’t
57:19
like it so this is a say continuing
57:23
fight the radical caucus of which on
57:25
remember as a I’m going to quote that’s
57:28
plank on this is called a no compromise
57:29
plank okay very sweet plank is the the
57:35
radical caucus insists it all reforms
57:37
advocated by the Libertarian Party must
57:39
diminish governmental power and say I
57:41
would add that slowly diminish it
57:43
no such reforms are the contradict the
57:45
goal of a totally free society holding
57:48
high our principles means avoiding
57:49
completely the quagmire of self impose
57:51
obligatory gradualism we must avoid the
57:54
view than in the name of fairness
57:56
abating suffering or fulfilling
57:57
expectations temporize on still on the
58:00
road of liberty that sets forth i think
58:02
the issue ok finally i think in a
58:08
practical sense this is the abolitionist
58:10
thing is more of a sort of a mood or a
58:12
general thing of spirit that permeates
58:14
libertarians by the way there are
58:17
anarchists the Anika’s Medicus dispute
58:20
there many anarchist who are graduates
58:21
who even maybe one or two men are kiss
58:23
who are who are malicious although it
58:26
helps to be the pure Anika’s that helps
58:28
to be an addict is in order to be an
58:29
abolitionist obviously sort of a certain
58:30
tendency there but it’s not necessarily
58:32
it’s not a one one-to-one correlation
58:34
come out of the key practical political
58:37
issue
58:37
the only real political practical
58:39
political dispute and a libertarian
58:42
party which I think has been
58:43
successfully overcome successfully
58:46
settled I think it’s one which every on
58:49
which every libertarian party must take
58:51
a stand I think it’s a key question this
58:53
is the question of foreign policy
58:55
everybody I mean every of libertarian
58:57
believes in the free market it’s not a
58:58
realist view tamai that every
59:00
libertarian in favor of civil liberty
59:01
there’s no real astute on that the real
59:03
basic white vital gut questions the
59:05
question of war on peace the the early
59:12
days of Libertarian Party in the United
59:13
States libertarian party took a non
59:16
libertarian foreign policy position in
59:18
my view there was it took essentially
59:20
the same position of Democrats or
59:21
Republicans Pro interventionist quasi
59:25
pro war position in my view to the
59:29
central and critical to take a foreign
59:32
policy stand which is totally up opposed
59:34
to war especially modern world which
59:38
murders necessarily murders masses of
59:40
innocent civilians there’s a big
59:41
difference between modern war and joust
59:43
thing you know medieval jousting nothing
59:44
wrong with that so like voluntary
59:45
dueling you know Sir Gawain has that Sir
59:48
Lancelot that’s great the rest of the
59:50
people watch on the battlements and
59:52
cheer their cheer their own favorite so
59:54
like a super
59:55
football but modern war is not for the
59:58
Super Bowl
59:59
it’s a situation with masses of innocent
60:02
people get killed
60:03
libertarianism seems to me it’s always
60:05
been a source of wonder why the many
60:07
libertarians have resisted this
60:10
libertarianism takes a stand on absolute
60:12
human rights and a sacred right of every
60:13
individual his or her self ownership
60:15
board his or her life liberty and
60:16
property unmolested by coercion
60:19
whichever way you want to formulate it
60:21
it’s always been a puzzle to me how such
60:23
a movement can fail of taking all out
60:25
opposition stand hold on opposed to war
60:27
which is a mass murder of the innocence
60:29
I can’t understand how libertarians and
60:31
come out Foursquare against price
60:33
controls and weed control get the e
60:34
that’s great even against taxation is
60:37
theft great and yet somehow fail to
60:39
speak out forcefully on on the person of
60:41
mass murder so it also of course foreign
60:46
policy at least in the United States is
60:48
a big means by which big government
60:50
exerts itself there’s a corollary
60:53
between government intervention at home
60:54
and government intervention of Foreign
60:56
Affairs it’s the same group doing the
60:58
same sort of thing now fortunately
61:02
libertarian party in this National
61:05
Convention in New York in 1975 changes
61:08
position took a very distinctive
61:09
libertarian foreign policy stand an
61:13
anti-war anti intervention stand which
61:15
is strengthened a solidified in 1977 so
61:18
far luck with some evil
61:20
if overcome that I don’t know how other
61:22
libertarian party’s doing on this fine
61:24
happy to say I made a contribution of
61:27
this shift okay
61:37
you

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